I came across a web forum today talking about how guys used to have to swim nude during gym class, at the Y and when on a swim team.
Young Men's Christian Association began in 1844, being started by George Williams in St Paul's. The American YMCA was started in 1851. Both aimed to further youth development and the American movement developed basketball and volleyball. Whilst it may seem strange men and women generally swam separately, unless they were of the "lower orders" hence the use of bathing machines on many Victorian beaches. Men and boys would bathe nude as a ruddy male complexion showed health and vigour (or a liking for alcohol!). Nude swimming was the norm for boys and men both outdoors and in even in council run public pools until at least the 1930's in England. British and American Associations until at least the 1960's maintained nude swimming rules mainly as a result of tradition. The fact schools used YMCA pools in some cases seems to cause some furor. The issue should be put in a context where diseases such as polio were often said to be "caused" by public swimming!
Although modern swim-wear is more practical, nude swimming remains a fairly common activity in rural areas, where an unwanted audience of outsiders is rather unlikely; yet it may be forbidden even there by law. Today, many swimmers in the U.S. limit nude swimming to private locations due to concerns about public nudity.
The YMCA board of governors decided that males would swim nude at ymca"s because of 3 main ideas and they are all related to the YMCA motto of "mind, body and spirit"
1. THE MIND-- Swimming in the nude builds self-confidence, which helps the boys in their everyday activities.
2. THE BODY-- Swimming in the nude is healthier for the body because bathing suits tend to accumulate bacteria. Because you are nude in the water it allows the pours of the body to breathe.
3--SPIRIT-- When everyone is nude you all have the spirit of conformity. The bathing suit is an encumbrance. It doesn't allow the boys to develop to their full potential. This is true when taking swimming lessons and participating in other aquatic activities such as water volleyball and water polo, Also it makes sense that when a YMCA is an "all-male" facility that it is not necessary to wear a bathing suit during aquatic activities. Nude swimming makes sense since everyone is of the same gender. Therefore the rule of nude swimming was brought in and enforced at YMCA swimming pools, and everybody had to abide by these rules. Back then the rule was, "no bathing attire is to be worn".
Ernest Thompson Seton describes skinny dipping as one of the first activities of his Woodcraft Indians, a forerunner of the Scout movement, in 1902.
Before the YMCA began to admit females in the early 1960s, swimming trunks were not even allowed in the pools and high school swimming classes for boys sometimes had similar policies, citing the impracticality of providing and maintaining sanitary swimming gear and clogging swimming pools' filtration systems with lint fibres from the swimsuits. These practices were common because of the perception that there was nothing wrong or sexual about seeing members of the same gender in the nude, especially in these indoor contexts among equals in 'birthday suit uniform'.
In some English schools, Manchester Grammar School for example, nude swimming was compulsory until the 1970s. This was also the case for some U.S. junior high schools. A 2006 Roper poll showed that 25% of all American adults had been skinny dipping at least once, and that 74% believed nude swimming should be tolerated at accepted locations.
When I was in gym class and on the swim team — we wore bathing suits. I’m a 30-something though. Apparently many men over the age of 50 have a completely different story to tell. So here are some of the posts I got from the site:
“I grew up always swimming naked at school, at the Y, and on the swim team. This wasn’t a choice, so we didn’t consider it right or wrong. Adults made choices for us all the time. When to go to school, what kind of shoes to wear to church, how to behave at the grocery store. We were accustomed to rules already being in place, and we adapted to them, as kids do everywhere. So nudity in gym class and at the YMCA was an accepted part of a pre-existing system. And as an accepted part of this system, we considered it normal, not sexual. It helped that the gym teachers were also nude. Generally, before class got underway, the teacher would be wrapped in a towel, but once class started, he would hang it over a chair and get in the pool nude with the rest of us. No one thought anything about this. It was completely accepted that swimming was done nude, so we would have thought it strange if he hadn’t swum nude as well. I don’t know when things changed, or why. That happened after I graduated from high school. Nudity among boys in environments such as these – public or private – was never something to be feared or ashamed of. I should add that, because it was pre-accepted, we didn’t have to go through any sort of adaption or acceptance phases. We were free to enjoy it, without guilt or embarrassment. In 11th grade, mine was the last gym class of the day. We often stayed after for another half hour or so, if the swim team wasn’t practicing, and played in the pool naked. I feel bad for kids today who are so ashamed of themselves that something as pleasant and innocent as this is necessarily avoided. We’ve lost a lot.”
Finally, I found this swim team photo from years ago. Can you imagine what would happen if something like this was taken in modern day times?
"I remember there was always somebody ready to enforce the "no swimsuit" rule at the YMCA in the 1960's. I remember when one of the boys decided he would swim in the pool wearing a bathing suit. A staff member politely asked the boy, "What do you think you're doing Mister"? "You know the rule--- This is the YMCA, so off with the suit!" The boy complied and he was able to resume swimming. The Y staff member upon seeing the boy without a bathing suit on replied, "That’s more like it!"
"I was raised in Lawrence, Mass. back in the 50s and very early 60s. Swimming at the Y was a great thing. Yes, the first time was a little awkward; until I realized...hey...there's nothing wrong with being naked. I wish; to this day, that it was the norm for guys to have a place like that to go and be free from society condemning the miracle God created. Nudity has become a sick, disgusting thing; due to these self proclaimed Christian (hypocrites) people, who go against everything that religion teaches, thinking that what God created is dirty and perverted. I believe that if clothing was never invented, that there would not be the crime rate, such as rapes, lewd behaviour, etc. because the curiosity would not exist. I can't seem to understand what the big deal is. Especially between someone of the same sex. As far as I am concerned; the penis is just another body part. Oh sure....yours might be a little different from that other guy you see; but so are you fingers, toes, legs, ears, eyes.....UNDERSTAND WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS? We, as a society has made nudity a dirty thing. Usually the ones that feel that way are the perverts that are trying to cover up their sick thoughts. Bring back the old days where the ol' swimming hole was full of a bunch of naked boys enjoying themselves without even thinking of it in a sexual way. Let's clean up our minds and enjoy life as it was meant to be.""
Gender Equality Kills Nude Swimming
"An early casualty of gender equity was males-only nude swimming in YMCA pools, middle schools and high schools all over the country. Men and boys had been accustomed to swimming au naturel at the YMCA in Ys everywhere, since the 1890s. The practice may have evolved from problems created by the long, wool swimming suits then in fashion, which apparently shed so much they gummed up the pool filters. Later, nude swimming was justified on the grounds of hygiene. A handbook in use at the Ys in the 1920s required that “A good soap bath must be taken before entering the swimming pool” in the same paragraph that specified “The wearing of swimming suits or supporters will not be allowed except by permission from the director” (Information for Members).
In any case, the custom was phased out as co-ed swimming became more common, although pools continued to be reserved for men from noon to 2 p.m. daily until the mid to late 70s. Cases like that of Sonstelie -– a newcomer to the Seattle YMCA who wanted to swim during her lunch hour –- fired off a letter asking how an organization supported by the United Way could maintain such a discriminatory policy. “They changed immediately,” she says. “I had never seen an organization move that quickly” (Sonstelie Interview).
The new policy led to what Dick Knapp, the Downtown YMCA’s physical director in the early 1970s, called “interesting times,” since many of the men who regularly used the pool at noon had never had to wear swim suits before. When the gender barriers fell, it took a while for all the men to get used to the new rules.
"It is ironic to me that at the local YMCA which has a beautiful, large outdoor swimming pool, many of the young men who use the men's changing room wrap a towel around their waist to cover themselves while they change from street clothes to their swim suits.
The Y sure has changed a lot since the 1960s.
Even at regular public park swimming pools I visited back then while I was growing up, men and boys would change openly in the changing room with no attempt to hide while putting on swimwear. There was a sense that everyone had pretty much the same equipment down there so what need was there to cover it up... although even as a boy I did notice that the uncircumcised guys did look a little different. But the point is, the body acceptance that the Y fostered seems to have lost out to a sense of shame and/or possible inferiority feelings that would arise from being seen naked by other males."
"I remember a mother who was upset at the fact that her son had to be nude during swimming lessons at the YMCA in Hamilton, Ontario Canada. She didn't know about the "no swimsuit rule" and was shocked when her son told her that the boys were not allowed to wear bathing suits at the Y. The aquatic director at the Y had a discussion with this mother and was politely informed that if her son wanted to participate in aquatic activates at the YMCA pool, then her son had to follow the Y rules which were, "under no circumstances may males wear any type of swimwear while swimming or participating in swim lessons at the YMCA. This was the strict policy and that was final. He suggested she find another facility for her son if she didn't agree with this policy."
In response to this:
"I hope she found another safe place for her precious little Johnny to swim without other boys looking at his tiny wiener. My God the child will be scarred for life. To think that another naked boy was in the same water with her precious Johnny. My God he must be full of germs and disgusting creatures crawling all over his virgin, sterile body. I hope she washed him down with bleach when he got home. Someone should shoot this woman right between the eyes. She is a NUT CASE. SHE and others like her are the reason this world has become full of crimes against nature, such as rape, lewd behavior, etc. She is feeding the curiosity factor so much; that anyone with a pulse that has any type of sexual deviancy to themselves is going to feed on a child like a shark in a feeding frenzy. If clothing was never invented; the curiosity factor would not exist and sexual crimes would hardly be a reality anymore. WE have fueled a fire that will most likely never be able to be extinguished, due to people like this woman and others that feed on the trash that our tabloids spew out. ONLY WE CAN CHANGE IT. LET'S DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! N O W!”
"Look around....in the last 10-20 years allot of associations, like the YMCA, Little League Baseball, Boy Scouts, etc have all had to change their tradition of being a "boy only" participation. It's just like anything else....women had to have equal rights, black people pushed for their equal rights, and so on and so on. Whatever happened to the sacred tradition of being what you are? BOY Scouts...get it? Girls playing high school football on a boy’s team. WTF? All it does is cause problems in the locker rooms and on and off the field. First they want their daughters to be able to play with the boys; but when the going gets tough and their precious little princess gets hurt of touched in a way they don't like; all hell breaks loose. Do boys want to join the Girl Scouts? Only in their dreams. Wake up people!!! We might just as well remove the word "tradition" from our dictionary. It doesn't exist any longer. People just can't seem to leave well enough alone. They have to start some sort of turmoil to be happy. If people would stop causing waves and just let life go on as it has always been; things would be so much more enjoyable; but NOOOO we have to have some moron object that their little precious Johnny might see another boy's penis or that their daughter isn't given a fair shake; because she chooses to be a "tomboy" and wants to play baseball. Join a girl's team. Join the Girl Scouts, hint hint.....If that's not good enough; then go start another world where everything can be as YOU wish and no one else can have an opinion on what YOU want in life. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A%& and live and let live."
Come on Guys! We have to reclaim this phenomenon!!
Although I live and grew up in South Africa, my grandfather use to tell me that the norm was for boys to swim naked at his Artisans-school that he attended as it were a male only school. So there were nothing funny, or wrong with being naked around other boys. He and his friends use to wrestle naked then swam naked in the nearby dam every afternoon naked and they would have fun going about it. They even had swimming competitions in the nude, competing against other schools!
Although me and my other guy friends used to swim naked all the time, and my grandfather encouraged us to do so, it were never a norm and had to be done very secretively always.
Girls and women were not allowed, ever!
Now it is rare for me that guys swim naked together, especially at this stage in my life.
I am honestly convinced that, the GAY subculture and feminist liberals, that want gender equality, killed this natural phenomenon among guys, as guy's feel that they have become sexual objects rather than brothers or friends to each other and to non males. That is where it became gay the first time women and gay's were allowed into this all male places!
Sure as hell If we don't realize that strict sexual segregation are vital for boys to grow in a controlled environment to become men, we are doomed. We will always be plagued by perversions, paedophilia, teenage pregnancies and rape for as long as we ignore this fact! Just during this week I saw an article on a Swiss company that started manufacturing condoms for 12 year old boys, called the hotshot! According to them there is a great need in Swiss society to bring down teenage pregnancy. I think they just want some way to market sex to young boys, not even Xipaals yet! So there are a market for 12 year old boys to engage in SEX (which is defined as anal or vaginal penetration), and erotic play (shared masturbation and frott), that are a normal way for guys to become sexually and emotionally mature, for among boys are considered taboo and everything less than male.
How sick is erotic play, compared to having anal sex or making a baby that you don't want!
If you don't believe me look at this!
Just as I think this cannot get any worse, it does!
I was talking to a young Xipaal who still attend school grade 11 here in South Africa. He was telling me that at the school he is attending there are a big open communal shower and open locker room were guys can change after playing sports or gym class. I then asked him If they shower after playing sports and he replied: "Most of the guys just dry off the sweat with their towels and change into their school uniforms, some do shower but are scarred at Richard a self proclaimed gay guy (not even in their class) that he will rape them, so they shower with their underwear or swimming trunks on!" As guys we know that one can get an erection at any time, and even at looking at other guys or in a non sexual context, imagine a 16 year old that got the courage to shower naked in front of other boys sporting a hard-on. He would be teased and labelled gay immediately by the other boys, and even believe it to be true, when in fact he is just a male with male body functions, courageous enough to be naked! This explains the gym teacher when I attend school. He would see to it that all the boy’s shower and wash with soap and water so that they don't smell like sweat during the next class! If some guy would sport a hard-on he would explain why that happen and not make fun of it, and thus prevent gay labelling. Today gym teachers are no longer allowed to change with boys in the locker rooms due to feminist liberal legislation that are demonizing all adult male's as sex predators!
Another Xipaal told me he was working out at a gym here in town and there use to be a guy in his 50's that had a locker next to his. Every day after work, my friend would go and workout at the gym. Every time he got there this old man were there in the locker room with him. If he changed, the other man would also change his clothes, when he went to shower, the other guy would also go shower, if he took a long shower the old guy would also take a long shower, quick shower the old man would also take a long shower. In the beginning he didn't think much of it, “why do I need to worry we are all men here". But after a month, when this thing were going on he realized this guy were deliberately following him to perv on him! NO WONDER guys are scarred to be naked, or do the "towel dance" in locker rooms, even shower with clothes on! He went back with a hunting knife around his neck to the showers and it seem like the old man got the message.
Now this made me think long and hard about the pathology around this whole topic:
Lets look at it from the naked guys in the pool's point of view. They were part of a system that recognize that guys have to experience each other and their environment, BODY MIND AND SOUL/SPIRIT, driven and maintained by adult males, as most facets of life were back then. Women didn't have a say over the men's world back then. Surely there were some women that tried to demonize the system, like the woman who were concerned about little Johnny. A system, were boys could be boys and men could be men and thus women were women. Women were seen as partners, that were a choice if a man want to have children and not seen as someone with sexual desires, asexual at best. Sex belonged in the marriage and women knew their place in society. Women didn't need to work as men could provide alone for the whole family and they could afford a house mortgage and a car and have extra to survive on and in some cases even have extra to go on holiday once a year. Today's women need to work and provide to sustain small family, thus the Empire took away the god given right for a woman to raise her children herself!
The empire orchestrated the women’s liberation because then more revenue could go to the top of the pyramid, in fact twice as much.
Then women became more "empowered" and have more of a say in life, so they became demanding, physical, financial and political. So Johnny's mom had more said. Now instead of taking little Johnny to another facility to swim in his new swimming trunks she demanded. To add more fuel to the fire, feminist lesbians, among other groups started their own Political correctness and one of the things they did was to demonize men and boys through the media. The headlines would have read "Why can men swim naked and women not". They basically freed themselves from a, as it were preached to them, "unjust system", at the cost of the freedom of men who worked and fought hard for that freedoms.
With money comes power and with power comes sexual demand.
The view point at his stage of women changed that they also had a say who they want to fuck, thus sexualizing the whole human race, and now men and women were seen by each other as sexual objects on a silver plate, and less as caring and nurturing brothers and friends. As seen in the example of the YMCA, women then demanded to become part of these male only establishments, even when they had their own YWCA thus forcing their way into all the male only organisations of the world even to this day.
Next guys were no longer required, and slowly being forced to wear swim ware because there were women with sexual desires around the now co-ed swimming pool.
The curiosity factor between men then started towards each other in some cases, because as humans we want to conform to others and now we were not allowed to see other guy's penises, thus here started the obsession with penis size/ image, something unheard of before if you were living in that era where all guys swam naked!
So the real close relationships between guys became gradually more and more sexualized over a few generations, thus making guys more and more a sexual objects and thus less and less closer to one another, and the gap between classes of people became wider and wider. Another factor is that boys will naturally go to learn from someone strong with power, thus now that mom have more power than dad, who got laid off at the steel mill, the boy want to be like his mom and not like his dad, thus talk like mom, dress like mom and sexualise relationships with other men, and even fuck like mom, although he don't have the equipment for it up-the-ass have to do and maybe later a sex change operation, to look like mom! This is where EYERI's or as they are known, GAY QUEENS DEVELOPED Another factor are that as men contradictory to today’s "BRO CODE" we need to experience love and closeness from other males in BODY, MIND, and SPIRIT, to become whole men, thus this group of guys are like the old guy in the shower that got so obsessed, because he was raised and are living in a dessert were no closeness and love exist between guys, that now by example of his EYERI brothers he sexualized the relationships between himself and other men, fuelled by the obsession to be close, like we were created to be, to other men, and this closeness does not mean taking it up the ass! Most men in actual fact don't like anal sex at all. It is unnatural for both the fuckker and the one being fucked and that is why the it is a sin, it is bad for both of guys and potentially dangerous, AND WORST OF ALL emasculate the one being fucked!
The reason why guys are scarred of each other is because now not, only women see them as sexual objects but worst, other men. So to shower with someone that are known or suspected to be gay, now is like the equivalent of the guy sneaking into the girl’s locker room and go shower with them! This is situation is particular disturbing because now you cannot differentiate a brother from a gay guy because they look the same and it would be pretty obvious to the girls that there are a boy showering with them!
Now guys play it safe, they are taught by other males to prevent being fuckked by another dude, you have to hide your body from other guys, to not sexually stimulate them and never but never show affection to another guy! Thus they are plying right into the court of the NON MALES, breaking them apart preventing any growth in this boys, making of them themselves grow apart and away from brotherly bonds. Then one day they would ask themselves "WHY DO WANT TO BE CLOSE TO THAT GUY, I AM NOT A WOMAN I AM A GUY" THUS, more fuel onto the curiosity fire making it worse and worse each day, starting and sustaining inner conflict into this boys like a fire or a cancer eating away their malnourished masculinity!
The other day I befriended a Xipaal not more than a few years younger than me. Like in most relationships with other guys, I had the desire to become closer to him! I want to wrestle, play, create, road trip, show him male affection, share with him. In the past in my "Imperial programmed state" I would go very confused,"Why am I "desperately in love" with the guy?! THIS "IN LOVE WITH ANOTHER GUY CRUSH" WOULD CAUSE ME ALLOT OF PAIN AND CONFUSION IN THE PAST. Sometimes the total lack of meaningful relationships to other guys left me to give up and take the plunge into being irresponsible. I would disappear for a weekend from my wife (then girlfriend) to go cursing at a male-only nude-bar and be erotic and sexual with anonymous guys, almost 100km from my home town, get myself drunk or high on drugs, and drive back the whole 100km at hight speeds for the fun of it! I got married and vowed to myself I would never be so irresponsible and reckless again! I could have got killed, contracted a STD or got sexually abused by someone, besides then, myself! All of this would have caused devastation to my relationship to my now life partner. Even during that time I always had the feeling that I am busy abusing myself! Since I have deprogrammed myself from the "male-relationship-sexualization" Imperial programming, I noticed something. Making a new guy friend is like acquiring any new thing, like a new computer, a motorbike or a cellphone. You have the sudden urge to get to know it better, you want it to be close to you and adore it, you want to be seen with it, you want to explore it and test its limitations. The same thing count for new friends that you like allot, but we were programmed to think for one guy to be close to another and to adore each other, play with and explore each other, is something bad, it belongs to homosexuals only, thus we can make new friends, but never enjoy each other like our nature intended! In almost all cases guys would grab to alcohol or other drugs to grow closer to each other! Why are we so stupid, to ignore/neglect our masculinity in this half hearted way, being scarred to experience each other in Mind, Body and spirit!
This same statement also drive most guys into conflict within themselves and as men we react by pushing away/ close themselves from close male- male relationships! If we don't like something best way to deal within is to avoid it! Now can you see where the cursing old guy in the showers comes from? Can you see now how important it were for boys to be forced to swim naked?!
We have to stop this sickness from consuming loving/caring/close relationships between guys. We have to bring about change into each other’s lives by being role models and to have loving/caring/close relationships with each other as males!
We knew this instinctively when we were boys how to be loving/close/caring and nurturing, that is the right way nature works and the way for us men! Gay's are guys too, we have to show them that, and help them understand that the programming all through the last century made them to sexualized their relationships with other guys, that is causing the their pain and confusion by our society! So what!, if a guy prefer male company/ life partner. I am not going to force him to get married and have kids. It is his choice like it is mine to have a woman as a companion/ life partner and to want kids,and I believe that is my male right too! The only choice any man ultimately have is to accept or ignore his masculinity!!!! GAY BASHING AND LABELING, ARE ULTIMATELY ONLY GOING TO FURTHER POLARIZE MEN FROM EACH OTHER, CAUSING CHRONIC PAIN BETWEEN THEM ,BREAKING OUR MASCULINE HERITAGE TO FORM, GUATIAO/BROTHERHOOD BONDS FOR LIFE, THAT ARE STRONGER THAN STEEL. WE NEED TO BE CLOSE TO OTHER MALES, AND NOT TO BE AFRAID OF EACH OTHER. ONLY VIGILANT AND CAUTIONS AGAINST NON MALE PROGRAMMING. As i see it that is the only way we will cure our society from perversions like paedophilia, rape and the spread of STD's. DON'T FUCK AROUND THIS IS SERIOUS!
What I propose is a male only school, where the staffs have to be all male. This should be a "Garden For Growing Men", where the core masculine virtues of FAITH, NO FEAR, COMMUNICATION, CREATION, COMPASSION, SELF-RESPONSIBILITY AND DISCIPLINE, and VALOR should be thought with life-skills and a profession of their choice. Any involvement or participation of non-males will render it back to the shallow and petty imperial neuroses where men live in fear, shame and awkwardness. In such an environment, it is impossible for men to be free, or to live up to and experience these core masculine virtues, and their growth and bonding will be severely stunted.
We have seen the results and influence of forced co-ed "equality” and what has been lost from our masculine heritage in imperial society. We cannot afford to continue without this quite important aspect re-included
What is truly gay is a broken, emasculated fragment, living enslaved and chained, denied his masculine heritage and birthright; and even worse, living completely ignorant of his masculine heritage and birthright.
And what the biggest, gayest thing of them all is someone who knows of his masculine heritage and birthright, and chooses to deny it and ignore it himself.
That's a true pussyboy, a true cunt.
So, here are some specific examples of what is truly "so very gay"
-A male who has lost his autonomy, particularly to a non-male- THAT'S GAY.
-A male who is afraid of other males- treating them as equals, playing, sharing, and weaving with them body, mind, and spirit- THAT"S GAY.
-A male who denies or hates his own masculinity- THAT"S GAY.
-A male who can't stand in solidarity with other males- THAT'S GAY.
-A male who has no close male friends, and is afraid or forbidden to make them and maintain them- THAT'S GAY.
The world would be a far better place and guys wouldn't consider each other as sexual objects, leaving them to have natural human male relationships, with no fear for each other.
So can you see now that, the stronghold on the male body, mind and spirit by non-males are only a few years old? The norm of naked swimming happened in living memory, this can and will be like that again if we act collectively and show our boys and friends the joy of swimming naked. We must practice this as much as possible and fight with valour to preserve it, to be accepted for future generations!